La Capra

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Posts by La Capra

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  85

  How Many are Single? How Many are Looking?

  by Robdar in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i find myself finally becoming accustomed to the fact that i am single again.

  i am no longer thinking in couple terms and i now cook to please only me.

  it's fun and scary all at the same time.

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  La Capra

  I'm single, and definitely not looking, but wouldn't sneeze at a nice Jewish boy who happened to cross my very hectic path right now. Boyfriends take a lot of time, and easily feel rejected when the girlfriend has so little time for them. Shoshana
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  33

  New San Francisco Chronicle Article on JW Child Abuse, July 31/03 - Huge!

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  gerard, forgive me as you already posted this but i want this as a new post.

  this is big news because this newspaper is northern california's largest newspaper.

  page a15.

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  La Capra

  If the molester in the Pence case reported the time and the study on his monthly sevice report (and y'all know he was, doublefold), then basically, he was church sanctioned, and acting on behalf of the congregation. Even if he weren't formally appointed as a leader, by allowing a study to continue, the congregation leaders know he is acting as a representative of the church. All the same obligations are the same when he is held out to be a leader, even if he is not one officially. Those lawyers should subpoena the guy's service records. Those would be quite damning. And isn't it good to know that any religion over one hundred years old can't be a cult. This is a huge weight off my mind. I think I can sleep tonight. Shoshana
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  5

  "Marked" for destruction

  by sandy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my niece decided not to give up her non jw boyfriend.

  the elders marked her.

  she said they will give a talk on "local needs" and warn the friends that someone in the congregation is not such good association.. she said they will not announce her name.

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  La Capra

  This practice is completely counter to the results the dubs hope it will produce. When I got my puppy and he started chewing on my shoe, I distracted him, then gave him a desirable alternative, his chew toy, to chew, and praised him when he did. When this gal was called on the carpet for basically, "bad association" instead of encouraging her with "good association," inviting her on outings and "distracting" her from her worldly boyfriend, all this does is leave her feeling alone and seeking companionship and understanding. Now who does she have to turn to? Her "worldly boyfriend". Thank goodness she didn't give him up, because even if she did, the elders STILL WOULD HAVE GIVEN THE TALK. And of course, everyone knows who they are talking about, and she still would have been marked. Everyone knows that the sure fire way to drive a girl to an "undesirable beau" is to forbid her to see him. They are so backwards in this regard. Hey you lurking elders, who think you know everything about human nature with your high school educations and window washing businesses, take note...People have alternatives to your social circles. If you instruct rejection, people will find the alternatives. By relying on advice that might have worked thousands of years ago, when societies were closed and fixed is outdated and ultimately ineffective and UNLOVING (cheeses gonna kick yo butts). You are to blame for "stumbling" this gal. For her sake, I hope she falls all the way out. Shoshana
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  30

  Extra Junk in the Trunk?

  by rem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ladies and gentlemen,.

  would it bother you if your mate gained more than a few pounds after the start of your relationship?

  would you feel like your significant other changed on you and turned into a different person?

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  La Capra

  What I think is really uncool, is when they go bald after several years. The nerve, to change from the person I met....Shoshana
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  18

  Give experiences as to what it felt to be a female in the JW's..

  by Country Girl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can tell you how bad it felt.

  it felt bad every time i put some "doily" on my head cuz some fourteen year old baptized freak was saying the pryaer that day.

  it felt good when i had to put a napkin on my head, knowing i was the oldest child, because my brother was baptized... and i was older and babysitting him.. to show "submission.".

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  La Capra

  After years of ineffective indoctrination on the submissive role of females in the organization, I was visiting some "friends" of my mother for a few days. Their kids were about the same age as me, and their oldest son, about 22, still lived in their three bedroom apartment, sharing a room with his two younger brothers. We all went to the book study, at another apartment in the same complex. There was a question that was very unlike a typical book study question because the answer was not actually written in the paragraph. The book study conductor and I were the only two there that knew the correct answer, but since ONE brother had answered it wrong, I couldn't give the correct answer. They went through FOUR wrong answers, and I never got called on to clarify the answer. The funny thing is that it was not a hard question-but unusual- it called for an explanation of a metaphor (illustration?) that was used. The funniest part was afterwards, the "oldest son" felt compelled to explain to me that he had figured out why I didn't get called on. I figured it out right away without him, but it was still annoying, so I said, "Well, I sure hope my future husband doesn't make a mistake when he balances the check book, because I won't be allowed to correct him, before he started writing bad checks...." He wasn't amused, but then again, I wasn't trying to be funny, just ironic. Headship was my first and biggest problem with this cult. I have numerous experiences of outsmarting and outwitting the brothers (particularly the elders)in my congregation. Fortunately one of the truly "good guys" would always defend me, and point out to them that all I ever did was be correct when they were wrong, and they should leave me alone. They tried for so long to get "dirt" on me, but it just didn't work. I finally got tired of always having to watch my back and resented the paranoia I was developing, so I bailed. If they (the 5 out of 6) hadn't tried so hard to keep "me down," I probably wouldn't have left. Shoshana
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  21

  WHY R U AVOIDING this?

  by puzzled in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just reading moxy's post "biggest mathematical miracle in the world" .

  and as i was reading all the logical reasons why it would have been impossible at least physically impossible, for that many israelites not to mention even one, to wonder through the desert 40 years and not leave a trace of their even having been there.. the only thing that seems to be more incredible then that is how many people on earth believe it.

  regardless of weather it's true or not what is it that continues to inspire millions and billions of people to continue to believe?

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  La Capra

  Humans are also the only creatures who have the ability to imagine things that don't exist, and fantasize about things that aren't true. Imagination and Fancy are the flip side of the Logic and Reason coin. Can you have one without the other? I hope not. Mythical history may or may not truly have happened, but, for hundreds of generations, people have believed it happened. Rather than focusing on whether it happened, I focus on what it means that people believe it happened. Shoshana
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  7

  Trinity...an attempt of Gentiles to distance themselves from the Jews?

  by mizpah in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have often wondered whether the acceptance of the trinity doctrine in the church was an attempt of the gentile beleivers to distance themselves from the early jewish believers in the early church.

  as the gentiles became the majority there does seem to be a concerted effort on the part of these members to eradicate any trace of the jewish origins of the church.

  in fact, some of the early "church fathers" were very strong in their anti-jewish sentiments.

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  La Capra

  Yes, yes, and yes (to all three in one). When Jews discuss the divinity of Christ, and the notion that Christians believe that God actually took human form, and how that morphed into the 3 in 1 doctrine, some say that this is where their fundamental proof is that Jesus of the Christians was not the messiah and savior, since it is diametrically opposed to their (our) fundamental doctrine that God is One, and only one.

  I believe I have mentioned in the past that there is a level of apologist doctine in what the JWs teach as it relates to the Jews. If it weren't for this technicality of Jesus coming along, there would have been nothing incorrect about being a Jew. When I was very young, I asked my mother why we weren't Jews, since that was the people "God chose" (I was only about 7, having my first stirrings that I was Jewish in my heart and soul). And she told me that earlier in the history of the JWs, that the Jews were still considered to be part of the whole plan, and that JWs didn't try to convert active Jews. I was so young at the time, I don't remember what that particular position was, and by the time I was interested in finding out about it, asking for old foundational JW literature was a no no, so I never tracked that down. Maybe someone else on the board knows about this.

  At any rate, the Christians did need a different angle, since from the beginning of time, (practically) the Jews have been a hated race and religion. Instead of being an offshoot of Judism (which it really is, and how the JWs present Christianity) coming up with a DIFFERENT notion of the almighty was essential as a separate and completely different identity. So much of the early decisions of doctrine by the Church was guided by a desire to spread and acquire power (and money and land). The Church adopted many outside customs (holidays) that would widen its appeal,and rejected other valid customs-or doctirnes- that would limit its appeal. Jewish customs limited appeal to the masses that were not Jewish. 3 = 1 was quite different, but still paid homage to Jewish mindset, yet was still quite UnJewish.

  And since JWs don't want to appeal to the masses (it IS part of their continued apology to the Jews-to remain outsiders), rejecting notions that do appeal is pro forma. So many times, before even considering a notion on its merits, the ntion is rejected simply because it seems too normal to outsiders.

  So as for the trinity-my research has revealed that it was instiuted by the church for several reasons, and one of them was to separate completely from Judaism. And as for JWs postion on trinity...JW doctrine clings to God of the Torah-God is One, and you shall worship no others. JW is a Jewish apologist religion, even borrowing their resurrection/paradise thing (which some Jews believe in).

  But what do I know, I intuit these things, then seek verification-not the other way around.

  Shoshana
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  43

  Some People Stay Witnesses Because They Don't Want To Think For Themselves

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've come to that conclusion.

  some would rather not have to think about a position, a prophecy, a requirement or a belief.

  they really would rather follow the dictates of leaders of an organization.

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  La Capra

  Fear of thinking for oneself is a quite common trait in all relgious societies. However, in mind control cults-like the WTBS-it is imperative. The members are told through one side of the mouth to "examine all things" but then are smacked back into the inactive mindset as soon as they look outside to any nonWTBS resource or not currently approved but still WTBS. Well, actually, let me clarify. They are only smacked if they think "out loud." This conditions them to believe they are thinking for themselves, when in fact they are barely thinking. This describes my mother to a T. My mother is incredibly brilliant, and very well educated. At the time of her indoctrination, she had just had her second child and was struggling with the notion of setting aside her profession to be at home with her children. The introduction of WTBS programming allowed the decision to be made elsewhere, and with that went the RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences of her decisions. It was, and still is a nice safe place for people to be, not having to be responsible for the consequences of their thoughts, decisions or actions. It is impossible to have a truly close, intimate relationship with someone who deep down does not think for themselves, nor bears responsibility for their actions. And this hurts me more than anything else about the dubs. My mother gets to know me truly-and to have my unconditional love- and I will never get to know her truly, or know whether how she treats me (which is "nice" and "warm" and "loving") is because of who she truly is, and a freely given unconditional love for me, or because that is how she believes she is supposed to treat me. I began suspecting she was following some sort of script at age 3 or 4. 30 years later, I still don't know. This one brings me to tears, because our thoughts are so directly bound with our existence (I think therefore I am). Shoshana
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  21

  The JW Martyr Complex?

  by lisaBObeesa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  like my mother before me, im a martyr.

  i am almost unable to make a choice based on what is best for me.

  and of course this has over time made me a depressed, bitter person who, much to my horror, explodes with rage from time to time.

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  La Capra

  Oh Yeah. The entire premise that JWs are persecuted because they are they only ones who really know the "true God" forces JWs to feel "righter" therefore "better" because of their suffering. The Martyr complex is a real condition and many people (not just Jws-but JWs really have a hard time shaking it) never realize how destructive it is to one's life and loved ones. I love it when I can briefly free my mother from her cross. Sometimes, when she starts to play the martyr, I step in and choose the selfish choice for her. She gets her heart's desire, but can blame me for it (see, she is still suffering). It sort of jumbles up the complexes. My dad thinks it's hysterical when I do this to her. Now if I can just abandon my own martyr complex, and quit blaming the conflict I suffered through when I chose to do all the things I wasn't supposed to have done in my formative years (like go to college). I call it martyrdom twice removed. But I catch myself not being honest with myself and others about what I do and don't want to do or have. "He should have known I would rather go to the seafood restaurant instead of the French restaurant....", but never telling him that. Oh brother. Shoshana
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  12

  Have you known anyone who left JW land after or because of you ???

  by run dont walk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  unfortunately, i come from a family which is still all in jw land, i would love to be able to convince them all to get out, but i probaly have a better chance of winning the lottery, but i'll keep trying.. how many of you here had some from your family or close friend leave the jw's after you did ???

  and why did they leave ???.

  how did it make you feel ???.

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  La Capra

  I got one in when I was teenager. I really want to get one out to make up for it. I am keeping my eyes and ears open for the opportunity to informally anti-witness, since they never come around in my neighborhood. I wish it to be my mom, but she doesn't care about all the inconsistensies, flip flops and other nonsense. She couldn't function if she didn't have her five meetings, service, and study to fill her mind and time so she doesn't have to know herself. Shoshana